Long-Term Quality: The Audi Syndrome

"Steven Lang" (StevenLang) 02/02/2015 at 10:00 • Filed to: None

69

100

We all have biases. Sometimes it comes from experience. Other times, it's a psychological trapping whose foundation can range from hard data to soft rumors. In the case of Audi, it's both.

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

Audi has the inglorious honor of ranking among the six worst active brands you can buy (click the graph to the left for a closer look). Land Rover, MINI, Jaguar, Volkswagen and Smart are right down there with Audi's overall ranking.

However, that low overall ranking doesn't mean that all Audis deserve to be recycled into low-content Chinese versions of Corollas and Camrys. Far from it. In fact, my brother and my niece now own a late model A6 and an A4 respectively due to my recommendations of both models.

I believe they're going to be perfectly happy with both cars due to three big reasons.

1. They can afford the high maintenance costs that come with owning an Audi.

2. They don't get too bothered by minor electrical issues that tend to gradually creep up on these models as they age.

and the monumental #3 — they will never own any model that has the enduring mechanical ugliness of an old Audi A4.

The A4 from the late 90's to the late 00's that featured the 1.8 Liter turbocharged four-cylinder engine usually needed a lot of special care to last. Synthetic oil. Specific oil filters (never the cheap stuff). A unique attention to minor issues before they became major ones, and for most buyers of this compact sports sedan, the willingness to pay a garage $$$$ to keep 'em going,

See the engine issues pointed right towards the red? That will be the eternal legacy of Volkswagen's 1.8 Liter turbocharged four-cylinder that was put into the Audi A4.

That red bulge before the big black peak represents an army of ex-Audi owners trading-in their older A4s well-before the industry average which is to the lower right of it.

Most likely these A4 owners got tired of throwing more money into a middling level of horsepower, or the Audi alums were afraid to see yet another repair bill in the four figures.

Throw in a not so good overall rating for Audi transmissions and it's easy to simply write off Audi altogether. After all, the Audi A4 has been the best selling model in the Audi fleet for nearly 20 years.

But then there's this...

Audi A3

and this...

Audi Q7

The Audi A3 and Audi Q7 are holding up quite well. If you !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! and scroll down a bit, you'll find that both models are traded-in before they reach the industry average. But this is because they are far younger models than the eleven and a half year average age of today's car in North America. However, because they also tend to have minimal mechanical issues compared to their competitors, we don't count the early trade-in as a negative, which is why they are rated "Above Average" overall.

The Audi Q7 in particular has an overall reliability rating that, to be frank, would do any Honda or Toyota owner proud.

What happened? Audi dramatically improved the overall quality of their powertrains, gave their dealer networks a far better means to handle early issues, and designed a certified pre-owned program that is among the strongest in the industry. Both of the vehicles my family bought were CPO models with a 6 year /100,000 mile warranty. BMW matches it while Mercedes is now at a 5-years and unlimited mileage.

Everyone has upped their game a bit in the near-luxury market. Will the late model Audis be able to endure past the 100k mark without any major mechanical issues? The 618,000 data samples we have collected so far doesn't support that view quite yet, and let's face it. The current reputation of dual-clutch transmissions and any non-diesel VW with a turbocharger is still fighting the uphill battle of a nasty legacy.

But when the data is out there, we'll get it and show it here at Jalopnik. This information will be available for free, forever, and in the coming weeks, we will also be releasing a comparison tool that will let you evaluate the used cars that interest you by year, make and model.

For right now, here's a compilation of how !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! . Want to look at other brands and market segments? Feel free to !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! . By the end of 2015, we will have nearly a million data samples to help consumers find those used cars that are worth keeping.

DrJohannVegas > Steven Lang 02/01/2015 at 15:30

3

Might have missed this in a prior post, but what IS your data source?

Edit: I even went to the mainpage of your site and goofed around. Still not clear.

PsonicPsunspot > Steven Lang 02/01/2015 at 15:36

5

I bought a '14 Allroad in August. It's brilliant.

Steven Lang > PsonicPsunspot 02/01/2015 at 15:40

4

I'm not surprised. Audi has come a long way.

bob and john > Steven Lang 02/01/2015 at 15:41

3

2010 A3 TDI here. 80K miles from brand new. we had 1 single issue. EGR valve needed to be cleaned once at 40K, once at 75K. other then that, car has needed nothing other then fluids, tires, a set of brake pads and a set if wipers.

Steven Lang > bob and john 02/01/2015 at 15:44

0

One of my favorite models, and very hard to buy at the auctions. You picked well my friend!

bob and john > Steven Lang 02/01/2015 at 15:45

1

(dad pick well) it was his 25th ani car.

I check the market every now and again. it amazes me the premium people want for the TDI vs the gas. like 5-7K over a comparable gas powered car.

Kyree S. Williams > Steven Lang 02/01/2015 at 16:00

3

I've just been telling people to avoid the 3.2-liter in the longitude-engined models...

Kyree S. Williams > PsonicPsunspot 02/01/2015 at 16:22

2

Thanks a lot. Now you've got me pricing late-model Allroads on cars.com. It looks a lot more proportionate than its taller sibling, the Q5...plus wagon....which is what I currently have. And it's certainly a better long-term proposition than the old A6-based Allroad, which we all know about...

DavidHH > Steven Lang 02/01/2015 at 16:32

3

Steven,

Not all Audi's are the same, as my wife has a 87 4000q and I have a 84 4000q.

"1. They can afford the high maintenance costs that come with owning an Audi."

Is averaging less than $40 a month for service per car over the last decade "the high maintenance costs that come with owning an Audi."

"2. They don't get too bothered by minor electrical issues that tend to gradually creep up on these models as they age."

Are you referring to the non-powered windows that we are putting into my 84 4000q, as more than a third of my maintenance problems has been the power windows?

"and the monumental #3 — they will never own any model that has the enduring mechanical ugliness of an old Audi A4."

What enduring mechanical ugliness?

Seriously, please tell me when you can find a four wheel drive car this tough and reliable on the market, as there currently isn't one. i.e. Engines and transmissions that last over 300 k miles, indestructible all time 4WD, etc. Owning a non restored 31 year old daily driver that I can drive across the country with despite high mileage [225 k miles when the odometer got stuck over a decade ago] yet no major repairs, ever. Seriously if you can find a better 4WD car, post your info, but I really doubt you will.

DavidHH > Kyree S. Williams 02/01/2015 at 16:34

0

The longitudinal engine models are the best, and have the best handling for a reason. They don have the serious design flaw transverse engines have.

PsonicPsunspot > Kyree S. Williams 02/01/2015 at 16:37

7

This is my third Audi; the Allroad follows a 2010 A4 and a 2012 A4. I'm much happier with this than with the others because I love having the extra having the extra space that the wagon provides, and it is—let's face it—sexy as hell. For a wagon.

Aero > Steven Lang 02/01/2015 at 16:39

30

I've never owned an A4, but I did have a 1.8T Passat. Terrible car. Turbo issues, insane timing belt replacement, sludge. It wasn't the worst though, that was the '01 Allroad I bought a year later.

My sister owned a '96 A6 Quattro, which was an amazingly reliable car. Even after 180k miles it only ever needed basic maintenance. So when an Allroad popped up for a decent deal I jumped on it.

Worst. Car. Ever. The transmission reverse drum broke, the air suspension failed, and then the front control arms fell to pieces. I decided at that point that VAG cars weren't for me.

Kyree S. Williams > DavidHH 02/01/2015 at 17:02

1

Well, yes, the longitude-engined models (which would be most of them) are excellent. But the 3.2-liter on those models (which I believe was actually 3.1-liters) had a very common timing chain issue that could result in smashed valves, and that didn't have a permanent fix. That engine is now discontinued. I only make the longitude-engined distinction because there was also a 3.2-liter engine in the transverse-engined Golf-based vehicles (TT and A3), and it's not the same engine. In fact it's one of the VR6 series. I think there are timing-chain versions of the 4.2-liter V8 that also had that issue.

Kyree S. Williams > DavidHH 02/01/2015 at 17:08

8

Those aren't exactly modern Audis, so they shouldn't factor into this article. Similarly, if someone were talking about how disposable Mercedes-Benz' are, the enduring and bulletproof W126 wouldn't help to skew that data in Mercedes-Benz' favor, as it was last sold in 1991, IIRC.

However you've missed the point of the article, which aligns with what you've said here...that Audi's overall poor reputation doesn't mean that its individual models don't deserve a closer look. Steve mentioned the fact that Audi has made vast improvements over the last several years in terms of durability and customer service, and highlighted some models that are doing exceptionally well on a long-term basis.

But Steve is right, too; both the B5 and B6 A4 are pretty sorry from a reliability standpoint, especially with the 1.8T engine.

Kyree S. Williams > PsonicPsunspot 02/01/2015 at 17:20

2

She's gorgeous. Which trim package did you get? It seems as though (unlike the A4 and Q5), a lot of Allroad buyers go straight for the Prestige trim.

DavidHH > Kyree S. Williams 02/01/2015 at 17:20

3

No I didn't miss the point of the article. Despite the efforts of VW Group, Audi still makes a halfway decent car, which is better than makes like Honda. Honda does have owners who don't know how to change a flat, or why they keep buying rebuilt transmissions, yet will tell you that Honda makes the best cars, period.

The point I was trying to make, and you missed was that Audi, like BMW and others should re-examine their best work like the 4000q and 2002. Adding more techno crap is not making a better car, only a more expensive car with useless gimmicks, like the refrigerated glove box.

DavidHH > Kyree S. Williams 02/01/2015 at 17:23

0

How is the timing chain impossible to resolve? I had a fiber gear timing chain in the 351w engine of my Ford van, which only needed to be replaced with a steel gear timing chain set.

NJAnon > Steven Lang 02/01/2015 at 18:04

1

They are one of the 6 worse brands to buy? Yet articles in other magazines say that men owning an Audi attributes to their attraction to women. See ladies, men having paradoxes they have to deal with to!

PsonicPsunspot > Kyree S. Williams 02/01/2015 at 19:11

3

Premium Plus. I'm not paying $2500 for sat nav when I have an iPhone.

I went with the lighter interior. I didn't know if I'd like it, but I do.

Mikeg216 > DavidHH 02/01/2015 at 20:54

1

it's called a jeep Grand Cherokee

*not the Mercedes years with the 4.7

Also lexus lx gx and rx

Kyree S. Williams > PsonicPsunspot 02/01/2015 at 21:00

1

I have a Jetta SportWagen TDI. I've had the diesel experience and am not sure I'd do another one anytime soon and I'm very familiar with VAG products, so an A4 Allroad is definitely a contender for my next car...

PsonicPsunspot > Kyree S. Williams 02/01/2015 at 21:59

1

It's a stunner, and I drove every wagon out there. Wish I'd liked the new Volvo, but the suspension was horrendous. Liked the Subies, but they were a bit meh. The Allroad hit all the right buttons.

DavidHH > Mikeg216 02/01/2015 at 22:05

0

What?

Kyree S. Williams > PsonicPsunspot 02/01/2015 at 23:02

1

I didn't drive the new V60, but I did sit in it, and it was cramped.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > Steven Lang 02/01/2015 at 23:12

2

FYI Mercedes CPO is unlimited mileage now.

Also the 2.7tt is terrible, and one of the newer v6's is terrible as well. But overall I think you're right, they are really stepping up their game.

PsonicPsunspot > Kyree S. Williams 02/02/2015 at 09:37

1

It was tiny, but it's a gorgeous car, so I had high hopes. I drove one of the Polestar versions; the suspension in that was unbearable. I drove one of the regular versions, hoping it would be better, but the suspension was unbearable, too.

Mattbob > Steven Lang 02/02/2015 at 10:12

3

Great article. Interesting, and no click bait.

Steven Lang > Mattbob 02/02/2015 at 10:14

2

Thanks! Feel free to give it a rec. I could use some blue stars!

Racescort666 > Steven Lang 02/02/2015 at 10:24

13

2008 A4 2.0l owner here. I just did a valve cover gasket this weekend that was leaking. The old gasket was in super rough shape, no wonder I was leaking so much oil. The gasket was actually easier to replace than my buddy's Miata which we were doing at the same time. For roughly $12 in parts and a few hours worth of work (we had to suck up all of the oil that had leaked into the spark plug holes), it didn't seem too bad. I see how it would be expensive to have a shop do it and the spark plugs were definitely not cheap (~$17/plug!) but overall, not a bad deal.

Steven Lang > Racescort666 02/02/2015 at 10:30

0

Audi had an enormous number of leftover 08' models for most of 09'. If you were in the part of the country, you could get one for less than the price of a loaded Camry.

Glad to hear you made that A4 whole again ;)

Racescort666 > Steven Lang 02/02/2015 at 10:42

5

I got mine used and got a pretty decent deal on it. I got it at 45k and I've put about 70k on it and this is the first brain surgery I've done. The gasket was pretty minor but a huge oil leak at 115k is a bit concerning.

450X_FTW > Steven Lang 02/02/2015 at 11:15

13

I hate it when I spill my chocolate shake in the cylinder head too

R W > Steven Lang 02/02/2015 at 11:19

8

2. They don't get too bothered by minor electrical issues that tend to gradually creep up on these models as they age.

dealbreaker. shut it down.

Ike B > Steven Lang 02/02/2015 at 11:19

2

How the hell can Isuzu be so much lower than GMC and Chevy when all they sell are rebadged GMCs and Chevys? Something doesn't add up here.

mtdrift > Steven Lang 02/02/2015 at 11:20

3

Gah!

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > Steven Lang 02/02/2015 at 11:20

4

Former 200 20v owner.......Mine was at 270k miles on the original engine and transmission. If replacement hoses and wires weren't so expensive I would've saved it. But I couldn't justify driving it when a Fiesta ST was cheaper. And more reliable.

However, my car was not an oddity. The old inline-5 motors were tanks and the original quattro systems were built to last. The Audi legacy has two chapters - "Unintended acceleration" and "Intended obsolescence" The first one was undeserved and those cars are part of why "German quality" was superior to all. The second one IS deserved thanks to VW cost-cutting to move units. But it worked. The first cars died out thanks to 60 minutes while everyone kept buying allroads and A4s that exploded after 50k.

Cixelsyd > Steven Lang 02/02/2015 at 11:22

14

Former owner of a Volkswagen. Current owner of a Lexus and a Toyota. This is the reason.

El Dinty > Steven Lang 02/02/2015 at 11:23

0

Even MacGyver is stumped by the 2.7TT

damnthisburnershitsux > Steven Lang 02/02/2015 at 11:23

4

mos'def an error bro!

TvrBurkett > Steven Lang 02/02/2015 at 11:24

1

I have a 2002 Audi A4 with the 3.0 V6 and it's been surprisingly reliable.

Steven Lang > Ike B 02/02/2015 at 11:24

2

You forgot the Rodeo, and Trooper (their two biggest sellers which have ), Axiom, Oasis, Vehicross...

Also you have to remember that the mix of vehicles is different between the brands. In the case of Isuzu, about 80% of their volume has been non-GM.

Tom McParland > Steven Lang 02/02/2015 at 11:25

1

Steve I know this is hard to predict, but how do you think the new MQB platform will hold up considering it is going to underpin so many cars for VW/Audi? If it is crap, that means a lot of models that will be impacted.

tapzz > Steven Lang 02/02/2015 at 11:26

5

Hank thought it was dead.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > PsonicPsunspot 02/02/2015 at 11:26

0

Give it a few more months.

JamesDM > Steven Lang 02/02/2015 at 11:27

0

Woohoo, go Jaguar go!

Davos Swinney > Steven Lang 02/02/2015 at 11:27

0

Brisket? In my Audi? It's more likely than you think.

turdferguson134 > Steven Lang 02/02/2015 at 11:27

0

That first picture is a bmw engine lol

Buck Rogers > Ike B 02/02/2015 at 11:27

1

Plant QC / Line build quality. Same with any product really. You can have two mechanical watches that use the same exact movements, casing, etc. But the attention spent during the quality control process and rejecting things is what makes the difference.

Mike > Steven Lang 02/02/2015 at 11:27

0

Why does the main picture feature a BMW M54 engine?

Cory_McM > Racescort666 02/02/2015 at 11:28

0

I just did that last month, spent a little more for my gasket but took an hour to do.

thejustache > Steven Lang 02/02/2015 at 11:28

2

I had an '02 GTI with I believe more or less the same 1.8T (actually tuned to make a little more power than in the audis). Other then replacing the coil packs (twice) and a scheduled timing belt change I never had a single issue with the engine in the 4 years/100kmi I owned it. Plenty of other mechanical issues, sure - just none with the engine. Sold it at 220kni running smoother than ever and holding stock boost just fine. I guess I'l just consider myself lucky?

Still never buying another VAG product....

TooManyBMWs > Steven Lang 02/02/2015 at 11:29

1

Hate to break it to you, but that first image is an M54 from either a E46 or E39 BMW.

Ike B > Racescort666 02/02/2015 at 11:29

22

I want to point out that you're talking up the ease of replacing a valve cover gasket that inexplicably has already failed on a car that was built only 7 years ago.

Two things:

1) It's seven years old, with an engine design (minus some updates) that has 15 years of development work beyond its initial release, and somehow the VC gasket still fails that early.

2) The ironic advantage of early part failures is they're way easier to remove than more reliable designs. My BMW 535i is nearly at 300,000 miles. That VC gasket is going to be a bitch to get off.

Racescort666 > Cory_McM 02/02/2015 at 11:30

0

Yeah, shipping was like $6 for the gasket which is ridiculous but it was by the recommendation of a fellow Opponaut who is an Audi factory service tech.

Audi-os, Amigos! > Racescort666 02/02/2015 at 11:30

2

I have a 2003 B6 A4 and MOTHERFUCKER that thing eats valve cover gaskets like they were filet mignon.

AntiLag > Steven Lang 02/02/2015 at 11:30

13

Mercedes Benz: Over engineered

BMW: Over engineered

Audi: Over engineered on a budget.

That's why Audi is terrifying.

The World of Vee > Steven Lang 02/02/2015 at 11:30

3

i own C5 Audis. They're my toy car, big comfortable and in ttv6 and ttv8 configurations... Fast as all hell.

My rs6 has 170k on it now and I swapped the six speed when it had 21k, have only had regular clutch maintenance since. It's no longer my DD so I can actually enjoy all my drives in it, but man does it kick ass.

Ike B > PsonicPsunspot 02/02/2015 at 11:30

2

Here's the thing with new cars: They're new.

Turbolence1988 Loves Magic Turn Circles > Steven Lang 02/02/2015 at 11:31

4

Wasn't this from a neglected BMW? I distinctly recall shrieking in horror that someone would do this to a poor 3-series.

JR1 > Steven Lang 02/02/2015 at 11:31

2

These gauges continually confuse me. For example with the Audi TT the needle at 0.1 is in the grey and not the red. So does that make it's engine more reliable than the A4 even though both have a percentage level of 11.5%.

And another thing with the TT the three gauge percentages equal roughly 25%. of the total 100%. Does that mean 75% of the issues come from elsewhere?

LongbowMk2 > 450X_FTW 02/02/2015 at 11:32

7

that picture horrified me.

MAXIMUMVRM > Steven Lang 02/02/2015 at 11:32

2

i must have got lucky. Had a 2003 s6 avant. Only replaced the air ride. Sold it a few years ago when out again. Had 180k. Got $3500!

Nicholas Johnson > Kyree S. Williams 02/02/2015 at 11:32

0

what about the regular 3.2 in an 08 A4? I'm asking because I just purchased one.

bpromersberger > Steven Lang 02/02/2015 at 11:33

3

Out if the 6 Audis my girlfriend and her dad own, 2 of them "run". I've been turned off to the idea of owning one forever. They're all late early 00's A6s, S4s and her A4 2.8l. It seems like there is always some electrical issue or burning oil or transmission issues. I'm sure they're quality has gone up, but some of their repair procedures seem asinine.

JosephJackwagon > Steven Lang 02/02/2015 at 11:33

0

I'm sure Audi has come a long way, but...

My 2003 Allroad was the biggest pain in the ass to keep on the road. At 20,000 miles the air suspension went, which accord to the dealership was a 3,000 dollar fix. Then the dreaded red transmission death showed up on the gear indicator. Another $500. Then the transmission actually failed and I needed a new one, $3500.

Honestly, I get that Audis are gorgeous cars, but I'll take an Infinity or Lexus just for the savings in repairs. Perhaps I am too jaded by my experience, so I won't totally write them off. But good god, in the stretch of a year I spent 7k in repairs on a "certified" Audi Allroad with 30k miles on it.

cosmicspeed > Steven Lang 02/02/2015 at 11:34

1

1.8t NevAr Lose.

SteveMarsh > Steven Lang 02/02/2015 at 11:36

0

Could not find MAZDA in that chart. They're not big enough, maybe, but I thought the Miata love would push them into #1 spot (or at least positive, unlike Audi etc, negative indexes)

Steven Lang > TooManyBMWs 02/02/2015 at 11:36

0

This is the source...

https://www.google.com/search?q=1.8+l…

If that's not the case, I'll change it. No worries.

Cory_McM > Racescort666 02/02/2015 at 11:37

0

Today I had to take mine in for a diverter valve, after reading online I should have done it myself.

BecauseRacecar > Steven Lang 02/02/2015 at 11:37

0

so can we drop the "German engineering" tagline yet that every scarf wearing soy latte drinking German car snob tosses out there in car conversations? you cars depreciate faster then stale bread because they are garbage and if it wasnt for a warranty i doubt any would leave the lot new. but yes tell me again how its superior to Cadillac or Lexus again

Ike B > DavidHH 02/02/2015 at 11:37

3

It's pretty bizarre that you're using 30-year-old cars as a point of reference compared to the very recent cars being cited in this article.

I saw a convertible air cooled Beetle on the road this morning. That doesn't mean I'm going trust a two-year-old Passat on a trip across the state.

jpunk > Steven Lang 02/02/2015 at 11:38

0

My used '07 A3 suffered from a well-known crankcase pressure valve issue and some sort of valve timing issue. Got them fixed and it's been solid for the last couple years. They're not for those with faint hearts or light wallets. Don't get one of these things cheap and expect parts & service to follow suit.

Joe Boost > Steven Lang 02/02/2015 at 11:38

4

Love her dearly. But at 85k the rear sunshade/starter/and driver door switches went. 07 RS4.

Vicente Esteve > Steven Lang 02/02/2015 at 11:39

4

Currently, Audi ranks 4th in Consumer Reports in brand reliability.

Patrick Frawley > Steven Lang 02/02/2015 at 11:39

1

We have an '05 Passat with the 1.8T and automatic, on loan from Wonderful One's mom while we're here.

WOMom was pretty meticulous about maintenance - very regular dealer oil changes with Castrol synthetic, stopping in every time the CEL came on, and so on. Just had it in over Christmas break for the 100K mile checkup/oil and to get the transmission software updated.

Never had any serious problems, but there are the smallish electric quirks. Still drives well. I'm not fond of the way turbo engines make power, but it does move with authority when desired.

Haven't pulled the cylinder head cover yet, nor do I intend to, but looking at that lead photo I wonder what lurks in there....

Ike B > bpromersberger 02/02/2015 at 11:39

4

Good lord, that's absolutely the worst period for Audis. In 10 years that's going to be like a black hole. There will be 1990s Audis still on the road, and then ones built recently, but nothing in the middle.

YeahthatG > Steven Lang 02/02/2015 at 11:39

5

This article is awesome....except you used a BMW 6 cyl engine for this picture....cant sneak an M54 past us dude.

icemilkcoffee > Steven Lang 02/02/2015 at 11:40

1

According to this chart Mazda is worse than KIA. That is pretty much impossible.

Time Traveler > Steven Lang 02/02/2015 at 11:41

0

I had two Audi A4's. The 01 sedan (1.8t) it's turbo needed to be replaced at 2.5 years and 18K miles. The full dash electronics went out at 5 years and 41K. I had an 04 A4 Cabriolet (6cyl) the full dash electronics went out at 3.5 years and 39K miles (6 months out of warranty). Won't get another unless I become wealthy enough to dump them before the warranty runs out.

Racescort666 > Ike B 02/02/2015 at 11:41

1

After having played with it a bit, the gasket is clearly made from the wrong grade of rubber. It was pretty much plasticized and brittle when we took it out. My guess is that they should have used something rated for a higher temperature.

As for replacing parts that shouldn't be, this is still better than the 4 transmissions my buddy had to replace on his minivan while it was still under warranty.

TooManyBMWs > Steven Lang 02/02/2015 at 11:42

1

A clean one. Notice the have moons on the front of the valve cover gasket (missing), the dual-vanos, the plastic thermostat housing, and the silver EGR thingy to the left. Stolen from: http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthre…

Vlan1 > DavidHH 02/02/2015 at 11:42

4

If its anything like the 4.2 V8 they stuck in the S4's well then let me put this here.....

They put the timing chain at the BACK of the motor. And those white pieces? Those are plastic which tend to disintegrate around 90-110k. Replacement means dropping the motor.

iSureWilll > bob and john 02/02/2015 at 11:42

0

I have a 2010 golf TDI with the same engine. 76k miles on it, bought at 42k. No issues except a CEL for an injector. Put in a bottle of diesel clean and no codes for over 10k.

Americanitis > Steven Lang 02/02/2015 at 11:42

1

Audi, Land Rover, MINI, Jaguar, Volkswagen and Smart are the bottom 6, and other than Smart, I'd argue that that the previous 5 marques make some of the most beautiful cars in each of their respective classes: beautiful styling, nice interiors, good performance/handling, etc...the only ones missing are BMW and Mercedes Benz, and probably Porsche for the most beautiful, and yet these are also some of the worst cars on the road reliability-wise, especially in the used market segment. Except for Smart, which I'd argue isn't really a car lol

Can anyone make a car that is beautiful, good to drive and sit it, AND reliable? I don't get it. Either the cars are rock-solid reliable and ugly as sin (American/Japanese/recent Korean makes), or they're beautiful inside and out (German/British/Italian makes), and will leave you sitting on the side of the road.

Can someone PLEASE explain to me why we as a species have not yet figured this out??

bpromersberger > Ike B 02/02/2015 at 11:42

2

Thats what I figured. I keep seeing $1500 A4s on Craigslist and thinking its a trap. I currently own an E39, and can't help but feel like that generation of Audis are even bigger money pits.

Steven Lang > YeahthatG 02/02/2015 at 11:43

0

LOL! You may be right. Here's the source...

https://www.google.com/search?q=1.8+l…

If it's wrong, I'll change it. In fact, I'll change it for the sake of it. Thanks for the heads up.

FartyMcCloud > Joe Boost 02/02/2015 at 11:43

13

Nice little humblebrag making sure the lambo is showing :)

Racescort666 > Cory_McM 02/02/2015 at 11:43

1

Honestly, the engine is in a good spot on this car so it's not so bad doing work yourself. I did a bunch of the ball joints myself too. Not too hard but takes a long ass time because there are 8 of them.

Marcin Radzikowski > Steven Lang 02/02/2015 at 11:44

0

My view is that a lot depends on the owner and how they treat their car and whether they're lazy about maintenance. I currently own a 2006 Audi A4 2.0T quattro with a 6-speed manual that I purchased brand new towards the end of 2005. The car has close to 200,000 km and it's still going strong. Interior looks like I bought it two months ago and mechanically it's solid. It is modified (chipped only). The thing that separates me from other owners (my wife had a 2009 A4 with plenty of issues) is that I am diligent about oil changes just as the factory specifies (every 15,000 km or 12 months), more significant maintenance (like brakes, coolant, etc.), and anything that does go wrong gets addressed immediately. Having had a great warranty (the 80,000 km, 4-year everything included) helped a lot. I've owned the car outright for close to 5 years now, so costs are low in comparison to a brand new car. I want to keep it as long as I can since the new ones are getting bigger and are laden with too many electronics.

Prior to that, I owned a 1998.5 A4 1.8T quattro with 5-speed manual for over 8 years. Same deal with that car...and the previous one that was a 1987 Coupe GT. So, either I have the automotive equivalent of a "horseshoe up my a..." or, taking care of your car seems to be the answer.

BTW...this isn't limited to Audis...all cars are like that. A buddy is still driving a 1999 Subaru 2.5 GT. We always say..."take care of your car and it'll take care of you".

It's unfortunate if you have to spend a lot in maintenance on something that should last 10+ years. But, that's the luck of the draw and I don't think Audi is any worse than others. I've had great experiences with the dealership where I bought my current vehicle to the point where I still take it there for service even though I have at least 2 that are much closer to me.

golfball > Steven Lang 02/02/2015 at 11:44

7

I have a 2.8L 24v GTI, which is the same motor they put in the early 00's A4 2.8. I pulled the valve cover with 155k miles on it recently to replace the gasket, and it looked like this:

The difference, I suspect, is that this motor has received full synthetic oil changes every 5k miles, and has otherwise been well cared for. Any motor is going to look pretty bad after years of abuse.

JB1 > Racescort666 02/02/2015 at 11:44

0

What do you think this would have cost at a dealer? Most car owners dont know what a valve cover gasket is.

Nicely done. DIY is always the best

MHunter905 > Ike B 02/02/2015 at 11:44

0

My Acura Integra has 265,000 kms and I have only changed some belts and plugs and oil. nothing went wrong so far. Just saying.

icemilkcoffee > Steven Lang 02/02/2015 at 11:44

0

For the A8 and Q7, I think the sample size is just too small. I'll go with the A4's rating as representative of the brand.

Chad > Racescort666 02/02/2015 at 11:44

2

Well to be fair my Subaru has had for more oil leaks than that by 115k miles. Valve cover gasket started leaking at 90k, head gasket at around 100k, and then some various o-rings on the tranny at 110k. That's 4 oil leaks I've fixed, at a shop cost of around $1400, on a Japanese car that is allegedly much more reliable than your Audi...

WisconsinGus > Steven Lang 02/02/2015 at 11:45

0

Knock on wood I haven't had any issues with my 2003 A4 other than just the "consumables". I had the dealer do a timing belt when I bought it at 113k, hadn't been done. Now it's about year and a half later and it has 137k miles on it. I've only done oil changes (M1 Synthetic and Wix Filters), replaced the plugs and coils, and put in a new downpipe because the flex section rusted out. I guess that was the only part of the exhaust that wasn't stainless. Clutch still feels like it has another 100k in it too. All in all, I am pretty pleased with my purchase

DCCarGeek > Steven Lang 02/02/2015 at 11:45

0

Correct me if I'm wrong but your data S.Lang is NOT by model year or even platform, correct? This is a grab of say ALL A4s issues - period. Not 2008-2011 vehicles?

bobbe17 > Aero 02/02/2015 at 11:46

9

I've been driving my 01.5 Passat for the past 6 years now. We bought it after a botched timing belt change and had the head rebuilt. Since the head rebuild at ~100k miles, I've put another 87k on it. In that time all I've had to do were the 2 outer cv joints, timing belt, and other regular maintenance items of oil changes and brakes. Suspension is pretty worn out but that's to be expected after 187k miles. I'm pretty sure it's still on its original clutch and the thing still gets 33 mpg highway and runs like a champ.

I've concluded with VAG that it's just flip of a coin-either it'll be bullet proof or it'll be a pile of junk. Not much in between.

detailer4u > Kyree S. Williams 02/02/2015 at 11:46

2

I love wagons too!

Racescort666 > Chad 02/02/2015 at 11:46

0

I had a 1997 Legacy before this Audi and it definitely leaked a good amount of oil. It was never a huge deal though. The problems started when I started blowing up transmissions.

YeahthatG > Steven Lang 02/02/2015 at 11:46

1

oh its an M54...I've seen the inside of hundreds...look up "M54 Sludge" in google images.

Edit: a lot of the engines in your 1.8 image search may be BMWs european 1.8 engines, but not this one. I would know a Vanos unit looking me in the face anywhere. M54 for sure.